Welcome to Story Deep Dive!
In this bonus episode, Dana and Rachel step away from the book analysis for a coaching conversation that keeps coming up in both of their communities: why does writing a novel feel so hard, and what’s actually happening when it does? They break down the vision gap, the first-draft mindset, and what it actually means to finish — so you can stop circling the same chapters and start building the skill that gets you to the end.
Whether you’re writing your first novel or your fifteenth, you’ll come away with a sharper understanding of what first drafts are actually for, why going backwards is the thing that will keep you stuck, and why clarity beats motivation every single time.
You can also watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube!
Estimate Timestamps
0:00 – Welcome + The Bonus Episode Setup
Dana and Rachel open with their standard (always fumbled) intro and frame this as a rare bonus week devoted to a real coaching topic. The conversation isn’t theoretical. Both of their communities are deep in first draft season, and the overlap is deliberate.
1:16 – Rachel at Story Cypher: First Draft Month + Writing Sprints
Rachel’s update: Story Cypher’s March is first draft month, and the final week is all writing sprints, 7:30 to 10 AM, Monday through Thursday. She breaks down why the structure works, including why turning cameras off actually increases both attendance and participation. Dana and Rachel compare notes on how removing the performance element changes the energy of a room.
10:57 – Dana at Danja Tales: Essays, the Nonfiction Book, and Walk-in-Talks
Dana walks through her current creative rhythm: drafting the nonfiction craft book, developing a Substack essay series, and using what she calls “walk-in-talks” to process ideas out loud before putting them on the page. She previews two essays she’s working on — one about intimacy progression in steamy romance, one about what happens when you stop making your ideas feel welcome.
Notable moment: “If you always push your ideas down... then what happens is you sit to write and nothing will come. Your ideas go somewhere they feel appreciated.”
20:13 – “Hard” vs. “Challenging”: Framing the Conversation
Dana refuses the word “hard.” Writing a novel is challenging, meaning it stretches you — not punishing, not impossible, not a sign you don’t belong. The distinction matters because no one signs up for something they’ve been told is just hard. Rachel adds: there’s real hard work in it, but the experience doesn’t have to feel like a wall.
23:22 – Before the First Word: Getting Beyond Just an Idea
Dana’s first coaching beat: an idea is a starting point, not a plan. Before you write, you need to understand the experience you want your reader to have. Genre, tone, emotional outcome — these questions shape the container before you ever touch plot or character. Rachel adds the non-genre writer’s version: start with a loose four-act structure and pull everything you can from the idea before committing to the page.
31:39 – The Vision vs. the First Draft Reality
Dana names the core culprit behind most first-draft despair: the gap between what writers envision and what they’re actually doing. When writers picture “writing,” they’re picturing someone’s third draft. Or their seventeenth. That mismatch generates doubt about the idea, the structure, and whether they belong here at all.
“Don’t trash the vision. Just put the vision in its place.”
36:08 – The Forward-Only Rule: No Going Backwards in a First Draft
Both hosts share the same non-negotiable with their writers: you only move forward. If you realize something in chapter three is wrong while writing chapter six, you write a note and keep going. Going back to revise while you’re drafting is how writers end up in what Dana calls “first draft purgatory” — running fast on a hamster wheel, feeling like progress is happening, and never getting to the end.
45:00 – Finishing Is a Skill You Build
Finishing is not a talent. It is a skill built through reps — doing the thing, imperfectly, until you know how to do it. Dana’s frame: the goal is always the end. Not perfection. Not a complete first draft. Just raw material on the table. A first draft at 45 percent completeness, with brackets and bullet points, is still a first draft worth finishing.
Notable moment: “Give yourself room to suck. It’s OK. Once you give yourself room to suck, you’ll realize that a lot of your skills are transferable.”
53:47 – Clarity Over Motivation
Dana’s closing argument: she doesn’t wait to feel motivated. Clarity is the commitment — I’m getting to the end, I’m finishing this chapter, I know what I’m building. The writer who waits to be inspired will write rarely. The writer who shows up with a clear direction will have a first draft in months, not years.
58:25 – Wrap-Up + Spinning Silver Preview
Dana and Rachel close out the bonus episode and preview their next book: Spinning Silver by Naomi Novick — a Rachel pick. Both hosts send listeners off with the core message: “Writing a novel isn’t about getting it right the first time. It is about learning how stories work while you’re inside of one.”
Next Episode:
In the next episode, Dana and Rachel kick off their overview of Spinning Silver by Naomi Novick — a fantasy novel Rachel selected specifically for its craft. Tune in!
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