Welcome to Story Deep Dive!
In this episode, Dana Pittman and Rachel Arsenault dive into their Best of 2025 – Characters and unpack which protagonists, love interests, and found families refused to leave their brains long after “The End.”
Whether you’re a writer, reader, or storyteller, you’ll gain valuable insights on how to craft memorable leads, build empathy for deeply flawed characters, and use worldbuilding to make your cast truly stick with your audience.
You can also watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube!
Estimate Timestamps
00:00 – Best-of Series & Today’s Focus: Characters
Dana and Rachel reintroduce the December “Best Of” series, where they look back over the 11 books they read in 2025. Last week’s episode focused on plot; this week, they turn to characters. After some playful banter about Rachel “cheating” by picking whole books instead of single characters, they clarify the game: name their top two character choices from the year, plus any irresistible honorable mentions, and talk about what makes them so unforgettable from a writer’s perspective.
02:00 – Dana’s First Pick: Galen from Indigo
Dana’s first choice is Galen Vachon from Indigo by Beverly Jenkins, a character she calls “the Black Daniel” and one of her favorite male protagonists of all time. She highlights how Galen embodies a strong Black male lead with Creole roots, relative affluence for his time, and a powerful role as an abolitionist involved with the Underground Railroad. Dana loves the balance of strength and vulnerability in his characterization: he has an unshakable moral core, fierce protectiveness (as seen in scenes where he’s ready to take anyone down for Hester), and yet a deep softness in how he loves. She contrasts Galen with many modern “alpha males,” noting that he has “swag on top of swag” without tipping into the “alpha-hole” stereotype. His pairing with Hester and the rich historical world Jenkins builds are, for Dana, a masterclass in how fully realized characters can elevate a good story into a great one.
07:00 – Rachel’s First Pick: Things We Never Got Over & Knox Morgan
Rachel’s first pick, framed initially as a best cast, is Things We Never Got Over by Lucy Score, with a special spotlight on Knox Morgan. She talks about how the Knockemout series created some of the most memorable, “sticky” characters she’s read in years—people who feel like they moved into her head and stayed. Knockemout itself reads like a real town full of distinctive personalities. From a craft standpoint, she praises how Naomi Witt’s internal arc is woven through and played against Knox’s growth, and how character choices genuinely shape the plot rather than characters merely walking through pre-set beats. Rachel confesses a personal love of “the grump,” and Knox delivers: he’s deeply grumpy yet completely devoted, and notably stays grumpy even after he falls in love, becoming more endearing because he doesn’t morph into a different person. She references later books in the series where Knox bluntly tells Lucian he’d rather be making out with his wife than hosting guests, but will absolutely destroy anyone who makes her cry—an example of how consistent core personality plus meaningful growth creates a standout romance hero.
14:00 – Dana’s Second Pick: Liam Black and the Allure of the Mystery Man
Dana’s second pick is Liam Black, a choice Rachel doesn’t entirely share, which leads to more playful teasing. Dana, however, stands firm that Liam is one of her favorite characters ever. She’s drawn to his grumpy, mysterious energy and the way his backstory and trauma are used to deepen, rather than excuse, his morally questionable actions. She loves that the book maintains his mystery without turning him into a melodramatic caricature, and that the story’s lighter tone uses humor to pull readers back from darker edges. For Dana, the relationship at the heart of the book is a compelling opposites-attract pairing where surface differences hide deeper similarities in values and wounds. She points out that the character is written so effectively that, as a reader, you know he’s in the wrong at times, yet you find yourself almost justifying his choices—a sign that something powerful is happening on the craft level. Dana encourages writers to pay attention any time they feel this tension in themselves as readers: it’s a clue that the author has nailed empathy-building for a complex, morally gray character.
19:00 – Rachel’s Second Pick: The Whistleblower & Gil Peck as a Flawed Protagonist
Rachel’s second selection is The Whistleblower, centered on its protagonist Gil Peck. Dana dramatically recalls how intense the reading experience was, joking that Rachel “tried to kill” her with this book, though she ultimately loved it. Rachel describes Gil as a phenomenally executed flawed protagonist—someone who is objectively not a good person. He’s manipulative, cutthroat, fueled by a serious cocaine habit, and has treated his family, including his sister, poorly. By all rights, readers shouldn’t like him. Yet Robert Peston manages to make Gil deeply sympathetic as he grieves his sister, seeks the truth about her death, and struggles to reckon with who he’s been.
Rachel talks about the tightrope of writing an unlikable lead without alienating the audience: you watch Gil try to do better and fail, see him face consequences, and still find yourself caring. She also praises the supporting cast and worldbuilding—a shark tank of equally ruthless people that both shaped and rewarded Gil’s worst traits. Dana notes this is a textbook example of how establishing the world’s rules and moral ecosystem makes it easier for readers to accept and even root for a protagonist whose behavior they might otherwise reject. Together, they highlight The Whistleblower as a strong study text for writers interested in morally gray or ethically compromised leads who still compel readers to turn the page.
24:00 – Honorable Mention: Found Family Goals in Sin and Chocolate
Dana slides in an honorable mention for Lexi and her wards Mordecai and Daisy from Sin and Chocolate. She adores the found family trope, and this book, for her, is a standout example. The dynamic between the three is messy, warm, and hilarious: Lexi is technically the adult yet often feels like she’s failing at parenting; Mordecai frequently plays the actual grown-up; Daisy is sassy, manipulative, and utterly endearing. Dana loves that they’re willing to sacrifice for one another, even when it costs them opportunities that might look “better” on paper.
Rachel and Dana both emphasize how the world context heightens the emotional stakes. These characters are scraping by on the edges of a dangerous society, and their loyalty to one another becomes even more powerful against that backdrop. Dana also notes the power of the species contrast—Lexi is gifted, Mordecai is a werewolf shifter, and Daisy is human; by rights, they shouldn’t even be in the same region. Yet they defy those boundaries to stay together, fight for medicine, and weather danger side by side. For writers, they frame Sin and Chocolate as a rich study text in how to endear readers to a found family and build connection through banter, sacrifice, and unlikely bonds.
27:00 – Other Near-Picks, Character Study Tips, and Reader Reflection
Rachel mentions The Woman in the Library as another strong contender for best characters, especially because the book sets readers up to like all of the main players, only to later reveal that one is a murderer. That structural choice creates a fascinating tension between affection and suspicion, offering another smart model for writers studying ensemble casts.
From there, the conversation turns more broadly to character craft and self-study. Dana suggests that if you struggle with character, you should intentionally ask: Which characters refuse to leave my mind—and why? She urges writers to articulate what makes those characters so sticky and trace the emotional tethers that run through the story. What worldviews, circumstances, and choices grab you? When do you start excusing their behavior? When do you cheer for them despite yourself? Those answers reveal the kind of characters and arcs that speak most powerfully to you as a writer and can guide your own character design.
They both reiterate that all of the books they read in 2025 had strong character work; these are simply the ones that rose to the top. They encourage listeners who read along to do the same exercise: pick your own top two for plot and characters, plus honorable mentions, and notice which stories move you enough to make you want to push your craft further.
29:00 – Season Wrap Tease, Mistborn Reminder, and Sign-Off
As they reach the thirty-minute mark, Rachel and Dana begin to wrap the episode. They thank listeners for joining them for the Best of Characters 2025 and tease the final episode of the year: a season wrap-up where they’ll share big-picture takeaways, reflect on their reading year, and peek ahead into 2026. They laugh about their tendency to start “looking ahead” whenever they try to look back, and remind everyone that January’s pick is Mistborn, encouraging listeners to read it in time.
Next Episode
In the next episode, Dana and Rachel will share their 2025 Season Wrap-Up—revisiting the year’s books, distilling big craft takeaways, and looking ahead to the 2026 reading lineup, including January’s pick, Mistborn. Be sure to tune in for reflections, behind-the-scenes thoughts on running the podcast, and inspiration to shape your own reading and writing plans for the year ahead.
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